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Translation(Transfer) from Russian Google
D.Rogozin: the Present NATO is not for us threat
" The present NATO is not for us threat, - the constant representative of the Russian Federation in the North Atlantic alliance Dmitry Rogozin is assured(confident). - for that simple reason, that there inside there are countries which have with us deep attitudes(relations) and which will not allow NATO антагонизироваться, and, especially, to become a real thunder-storm for the Russian Federation ".
According to D.Rogozina, serious test of attitudes(relations) of Russia and NATO took place in August, 2008. " There were such forces which supported landing the forwarding American case to Southern Caucasus, - it(he) has explained. - and Europeans have blocked this question, actually NATO then has hung on trousers at Americans, has prevented to operate(work) with it(him) resolutely ". At the same time, the politician recognizes, that " in NATO there are also forces which are not friendly in relation to us which, really, try to deceive sometimes us ".
In D.Rogozina's opinion, Russia – the NATO, last in Lisbon, it is possible to consider(count) the summit by break in attitudes(relations). " It was interesting to us, that the NATO thinks of itself, and that the NATO thinks of Russia, and on two questions we have received firm enough answer in view of our position, - has noted постпред Russia in NATO. - the first: NATO has declared that it(she) respects with international law and speaks about a leaging role of secutiry council of the United Nations in the decision of questions of application of force, in the second - we have seen assurance that any question in the Europe cannot be solved without Russia and furthermore against it(her) ".
D.Rogozin has expressed confidence that chances of the introduction into a North Atlantic alliance of Ukraine and Georgia " are not present any "." The Ukrainian political elite, even its(her) proAtlantic part has understood, that the theme of the introduction into NATO will lead to degradation of the Ukrainian statehood, they were frightened and send(have departed) aside, - the politician has explained. As if to Georgia, as he said, a problem in in what borders to accept this country in the Alliance. " To accept in those borders which are recognized with the West, that is together with Abkhazia, with South Ossetia and with our military bases, - it is impossible, - has noted D.Rogozin. - the Second variant – to accept that remains after adventure Саакашвили, that is to recognize existence of Georgia without Abkhazia and without South Ossetia, but also on it the West will not go ".
FULL DECODING OF INTERVIEW
В.ПОЗНЕР: On air the program "Pozner", the visitor of the program – the constant representative of the Russian Federation at the North Atlantic union of NATO Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin. Good evening.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Good evening.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Not only the constant representative, but also except for that Doctor of Philosophy and the master of sports on handball. Correctly?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Precisely.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Sometimes play still? No, in handball is not present. In basketball. Simply in handball it is heavy to type(collect) the company. Very original kind of sports.
В.ПОЗНЕР: We as always begin with the questions sent by our spectators on a site of the First channel. There were many questions on NATO as you understand. I have removed(have taken off) all of them, because it will be in teleinterview – about it(this) we we shall speak. So here questions not on NATO. Andrey Sergeevich: " As so it has turned out, what you from opposition have appeared on service at the state? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: And I was not in opposition. I was in alternative political party. As a matter of fact, for any active person to be in opposition is a greater(big) trouble. You cannot самореализоваться, offer something, to change the world, you surrounding. Therefore I considered(counted), that if it is not infringement of my principles, the work connected with protection of interests of the state and protection of national safety of Russia, it corresponds(meets) to my principles, I have agreed with this work.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Ivan: whether " you Consider(Count) Soviet build criminal? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, I do not consider(count) the country in which I was born, criminal.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Andrey Labazyuk: " Having got acquainted with your biography, I with surprise for myself have found out, that you have devoted a lot of time fashionable presently to Russian question. Explain to me, please, who such Russian person? Than it(he) differs from non-russian? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: I began to be engaged in this theme when Soviet Union has broken up and when I have learned(have found out), that more than 25 million Russian people have appeared suddenly during one moment foreigners though they lived on the ground, did not leave anywhere. But, actually, when I began to be engaged in Russian communities, I was suddenly convinced that in structure of Russian communities there are many people of the most different nationalities. But they defined(determined) themselves as Russian on the mentality, on the heart.
В.ПОЗНЕР: the Person obviously with irony subscribes " Balls Polygraph Полиграфович ". " Once at change of authority in Turkmenistan you, being in Kiev, advised Russia and to Ukraine to land a landing in this republic. In this connection at me a question: on what investigation you work? In fact, it is clear, that you tried поссорить Russia and Ukraine with Turkmenistan ". About investigation we shall leave while. But you, actually... What was it for the offer?
Д.РОГОЗИН: To tell the truth, I do not remember such. To tell the truth, hardly I could such offer. It is not similar to me.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Oleg Yurevich: " Being connected with nationalists, whether you realize impossibility to isolate one nation " Russian " from multinational structure of Russia where at present the concept not " a nationality ", more likely, will be pertinent, and " the Russian "?"
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know, I in general consider(count), that a major principle of national policy(politics) – love the, respect another's. Therefore Russia was under construction thus, it(she) grew people and territories, but all of them merged in the uniform political nation. Then, I already, in my opinion, have answered this question: I do not consider(count), that Russian is only blood. Of cleanliness of the blood macaques can be proud only.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And that not always, seems to me. Anton Viktorovich Shved: " you some time were, as though, in opposition in relation to operating(working) authority. Now you are the person(face) of operating(working) authority in NATO. In this connection a question: probably and whether creation of strong opposition is necessary for our state? Or any attempts is simply next Kremlin project? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: I am absolutely convinced that nothing can move to Russia without a competition. The competition is the only thing that can rescue(save) us from corruption. Because if коррупционер knows, that behind it(him) not simply any militiaman looks, and its(his) political competitor who, speaking cynically, is going to take its(his) place, I think, that it(he) will conduct itself(himself) more cautiously. Therefore the competition is necessary in economy, it(she) is necessary in a personnel state policy, that is the state should type(collect) in authority of the best representatives of the nation. And, certainly, the political competition – it(she) is obligatory.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Egor Sinebok: " In 2007 from a tribune of the State Duma you very artistically parodied the Caucasian accent(stress), criticizing mode Саакашвили. Whether you of the used artistic talent in Bruxelles, that спародировать, say, the British accent(stress), defending interests of Russia? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, certainly. Certainly, in Bruxelles the establishment of close human attitudes(relations) between people who there work is required. At me fine attitudes(relations) and with the commander-in-chief of NATO in the Europe, and from mostly ambassadors. But it never prevented to take to me of a rigid political position when it(this) was demanded with a situation.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Arthur Vladimirovich Kharchenkov: " it is clear to Me to push the decision of a present mode you far away from an orchestra of internal political theatre of the country, being afraid to have such opponent. And your act - to agree to leave from a proscenium of the big policy(politics) in this situation forces - also is clear. But I was to be trusted no, that you have reconciled to a role in an alternating cast is far not brilliant political command(team). Whether long you intend to vegetate in Bruxelles? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: I think, that work in NATO is not a cushy job and not vegetation, it not каторга, believe, precisely. It to be on an edge of work on strengthening safety of my country. It is interesting to me, I studied in it(this). I, all the same, the foreign affairs specialist, I have finished the international branch of faculty of journalism of the Moscow State University, I know some the European languages, I protected candidate, the thesis for a doctor's degree in Moskovsk university, I headed committee on the international affairs. It is my work, and I think, that it(she) benefits my country. And I feel internally comfortably with the conscience and with the prospects.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Vasily Nikolaevich Nekrasov: " As you concern to opinion, what the publication of materials on a site " Викиликс " has not done without participation of the American special services and this action has the planned character, and the subsequent publications will have provocative character mainly for Russia and other antiAmerican countries? "
Д.РОГОЗИН: Some my experts(auditeurs) think in precisely the same way. They consider(count), that the situation is similar to work of investigation which all over again gives the truthful information to the opponent through the illegal scout, and 2-3-4 disinformations then are suddenly thrown. But the source of reception of the information has already got used to the truth or to lies which is similar to the truth. I do not exclude that someone can manipulate a greater(big) stream of the information which reminds plums of the compromising evidence. And as a result there will be some inveracious information. But, nevertheless, I wish to tell, that meanwhile all is convincing enough. We read, especially we read on the block, under attitudes(relations) from NATO, across Georgia and so on. I learn(find out) much that interesting. Not all is interesting. The biggest, that was not pleasant to me in these reports, are estimations which are given to people. I, all the same, consider(count), that it is possible to argue with a political position of the opponent and is rigid enough, but it is impossible to become personal is a rough work.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Basically, there is an opportunity, in your opinion, to recheck this information, how much(as far as) it(she) corresponds(meets) to the truth?
Д.РОГОЗИН: On the expiration of time – yes.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you, for example, have such opportunity?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Certainly. Because that, we shall admit(allow), goes in reports 2006, 2007, we already know, that event has occured(happened). Therefore only practice is criterion of check.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Well. We have finished questions from our site, dear spectators. Now there will be an advertising and consequently serious conversation will already begin.
THE SECOND PART
В.ПОЗНЕР: We shall necessarily speak with you about NATO – naturally, it interests the overwhelming majority of our spectators. But slightly about you most, Dmitry Olegovich. Everyone know you as the politician and as the diplomat. But not everyone know, that you not taken place actor. That you, actually, passed(took place) competition in ВГИК on actor's faculty. Have passed(have taken place) – and did not become.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Has passed(Has taken place). Did not become. Has lost interest. Because I not the actor, I am a director. The director in a broad sense.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Actually, have lost interest? And the journalist did not become, though have terminated journalism faculty, the international branch. And too did not become.
Д.РОГОЗИН: it has not turned out. Me have not taken on the First channel. I wished in Останкино to get for work. I was the trainee in the main edition of the international information, the program "Time". I was краснодипломник, at me was two diplomas: one across Cuba, another - on the military policy(politics) of France. But I wished to work here, in Останкино. But there were other boys with more correct daddies.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Listen, at you the daddy where as correct. Oleg Konstantinovich Rogozin – the general-lieutenant, the professor, Dr.Sci.Tech., the head of department of perspective systems of the arms, the first зам the chief of service of arms of Ministry of Defence of the USSR, hero Sotstruda. Where there is more correct?
Д.РОГОЗИН: But the matter is that it was the good, correct father at that time to make correct, good military career. And here there were boys from other families. Know, there was on this theme a joke even at that time. Whether there can be a son of the general the marshal? The answer: no, cannot, because the marshal too has a son.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Tell, please, and you were involved never with a military path?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Yes. In general, I from family which has military traditions since XI century.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Even so. I subtracted(deducted), that you прапрадед was полицмейстером Moscow, the general-major. But you have not gone(do not send) on this way?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I have not gone on this way. I do not know, why... It is complex(difficult) to tell. I liked journalism, I wished to work, write, meet people. And then I, probably, not so would like to get in that system where all is already predetermined. I would like to prove most, that I something can. Therefore I have gone on journalism. But, all my further destiny all the same has been connected with questions of war and peace. And now too.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And tell, your father was not upset, what you have not gone(do not send), all the same, on a military line?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Was upset. But then it(he) has ceased to be upset. When it(he) has understood, as spheres of my scientific interest, and further my political career, and parliamentary – it(she) has been connected with work in hot points. The father was pleased, when I have received наградное the weapon for really taken out officers rescueed(saved) from the Chechen Republic, and so on. Therefore I had to pass(take place) all hot points, therefore I in any sense compensated that I did not serve as the officer. I still consider(count) myself the person who serves the fatherland.
В.ПОЗНЕР: It certainly. For this purpose it is not obligatory to be the militarian. Tell, please, you have gone(send) to work in Committee of the youth organizations – КМО, and at that time here such "public" organizations in Soviet Union often served as a roof for special services. It is told somewhere, that you spoke, that during work in КМО you have been closely connected with employees of special services. It is an invention? Or you, really so spoke?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I in general dreamed to work in investigation.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you have not taken?
Д.РОГОЗИН: have not taken, because at me the father-in-law from the first central administrative board of KGB of the USSR, just from external investigation. And whereas time there was Antropov's order: " Children and sons-in-law to not take ". I have returned from practice on Cuba where studied instead of the fifth rate, in full confidence, that all is normal, the staff I have passed(have taken place). Me even twisted on this(thus) any крутилке, that is I have passed(have taken place) a medical board. Should go to investigation. And to me speak: "Excuse" - without an explanation of the reasons. Then I have already learned(have already found out), that it is connected with struggle against domesticity in KGB of the USSR, therefore I have appeared not in external investigation and in general, to tell the truth, without distribution. Therefore in КМО the USSR in general has got very casually.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Experience it today? Regret?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I work now with investigation very closely - both with military, and with political.
В.ПОЗНЕР: But, all the same, you not in investigation.
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, I not in investigation and never in it(her) was.
В.ПОЗНЕР: to you there will be 47 years. You were born on December, 21st. I shall remind someone if do not remember, that this day Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin was born among other.
Д.РОГОЗИН: And also still Michael Nikolaevich Saakashvili.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Correctly. But I do not ask, as you concern to Саакашвили. And, here, actually, seriously, what your attitude(relation) to Stalin?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Probably, a heavy question for any person. I concern to Stalin, more likely, negatively. I about it(this) write in the book " Hawks of the world " which has left recently. I have written that, comparing two wars, the First world war and Great Domestic war, I have come to conclusion that at us could be avoided such terrible human losses. It was complex(difficult) to present itself general Vlasova and власовцев to the First world war. It was complex(difficult) to present itself of camp for those who came back from a captivity. Them, on the contrary, then after the First world war accepted in another way. Therefore I consider(count), that Stalin has put(rendered), certainly, terrible damage. It(he) has damaged also to my family including, therefore my attitude(relation) to it(him,them) complex(difficult). Thus I understand, that... Understand, the history is not written in subjunctive moods. It was simple time when, probably, we could not avoid such as Stalin.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Probably. And how you concern to the decision of the State Duma to recognize, what, all the same, Stalin and its(his) nearest environment, really, are guilty of execution of 28 thousand Polish officers Катыни, what, at last, officially the parliament of Russia publicly has recognized it? You support(maintain) it as a step?
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know, if Stalin shot our officers why it(he) should be engaged in charity in relation to Polish? Therefore I simply speak, that I do not doubt, that it(he) has shot. Under its(his) order they were shot.
В.ПОЗНЕР: But what have publicly recognized it, you support(maintain)?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I in general support(maintain) restoration of attitudes(relations) with Poland not only because the part of my family has the Polish roots but also because I consider(count), that in these attitudes(relations) too much subjective, silly, connected with any phobias. And, basically, with Poles we could restore more stable attitudes(relations). It would be useful for us. At least, I with Poles in Bruxelles work very closely, I am friends of Polish ambassador Boguslavom Vinidom.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Phobias, all the same, from Poland concerning Russia.
Д.РОГОЗИН: it is More, certainly.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Certainly. Also there are to that reasons, obviously.
Д.РОГОЗИН: there Are reasons from both parties(sides). These are two people which all life were a number(line).
В.ПОЗНЕР: Ivan Susanin and so on.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Yes, but were and унии, and there was a prospect in general even one tsar.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Yes, it is the truth. You name multi-party in the sense that you were a member of many... The CPSU were a member?
Д.РОГОЗИН: No.
В.ПОЗНЕР: were not. And what members of parties(sets) you were?
Д.РОГОЗИН: "Native land". And all.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Why you name multi-party?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Well, malicious languages, know, whether a little as will name. What now I should отбрехиваться?
В.ПОЗНЕР: No, simply to explain.
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, I always was a member of the Congress of Russian communities is the organization which I created.
В.ПОЗНЕР: It yes, but it not a party(set).
Д.РОГОЗИН: And it(she) entered into different coalitions, this organization. But thus I consider(count), all the same, myself as a member of political party " Native land ".
В.ПОЗНЕР: In occasion of "Native land". We recently spoke about your father. Only five years ago your father spoke the following: " I am happy(am) with the son. It(he) managed to unite huge quantity(amount) of people around of the unique idea, still capable to rescue(save) the country. This idea – patriotism ". The party(set) "Native land" meant. It(he) spoke further: "Native land" - business of young patriots. I think, the future behind them ". But not behind them it has appeared, yes? The Party(Set) "Native land" has somehow come to naught.
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know, simply time has not sufficed to create real political party. Also there were mistakes(errors) which, in many respects, have been connected with process of formation of this political organization. It(she) was многосложна. I when have resulted(brought) together with other my colleagues fraction " Native land " in the State Duma, fairly to you I shall tell, at me was, in my opinion, my three colleagues of all in all fraction from 40 person. All the others were different people. And process of formation of this broth something more or less firm, rigid simply has not come to the end. We have appeared in a complex(difficult) situation when inside of the political party breaks have begun. They also have ruined this organization.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Tell, please, this notorious advertising roller on ТВЦ - " we Shall clear Moscow of dust " in which you took part(participated) and, probably, which has led to that to you was necessary to refuse all over again presidency in a party(set), then - from presidency in fraction … you regret what, in general, it was? You understand, what it was the mistake(error)? How in general you for yourselves explain it? Because there was a precise hint: dust are there were people of other nationality, these are 100 %. That is in it(this) the certain nationalism was read through. Or not?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I knew, that you to me will set this question.
В.ПОЗНЕР: it is natural! Though you the book have presented me, but all the same to ask a question I should.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Yes. There I am detailed about it(this) I write, and as the roller and that was then, and criminal case which on me has been opened(open), and then the decision of Office of Public Prosecutor on absence of structure of a crime was created. Much that was. In general, at us for rollers of a party(set) from elections do not remove. And if you consider(count), that a roller ксенофобский I so do not think. I think, that it(he) was social, more likely. Because it was a question not of these actors of mass meeting who represented street hooligans, it was a question absolutely of other – about rudeness in our attitudes(relations), about an arbitrariness of authority, about corruption, about city, about Luzhkov. It was a roller about Luzhkov. It(he) was always my opponent, I always with it(him) struggled, it(he) always struggled with me. And, as a matter of fact, it(he) has played the most negative role in rout of a party(set) "Native land" - it(he) has removed(has taken off) it(her) from elections. Then process of general removal of a party(set) has begun with other regional campaigns. But I shall pay your attention to one interesting episode. Us have not removed(have not taken off) only in one republic – in republic Mountain Altai – in absolutely national republic. I have departed there, I met people, including went even, such place I remember Кош-Агач, this place, where 40 km China, 40 – Kazakhstan, 40 – Mongolia. So there all voted for "Native land". If we would be ксенофобами and if they have found(considered), that this roller was pure(clean) ксенофобский, they would not began to vote for us. We have taken there the second place.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Well. You tell to me, please, Dmitry Olegovich, in all honesty, not the chauvinist? You do not consider(count) yourselves?.. You have defined(determined) Russian as what considers(counts) itself as Russian here here again. It(he) can be the Chinese, actually, but it(he) itself(himself) considers(counts) time Russian mentally and in heart, means, for you it(he) Russian. The approach for me absolutely clear. Ноиногда, reading your performances(statements) or looking at the Congress of Russian communities and, in particular, on ДПНИ and on " Russian march " which you concern, I personally cannot get off sensation, that there very high level of chauvinism and nationalism. Really, I so am mistaken?
Д.РОГОЗИН: In general we people of different political views, Vladimir Vladimirovich. Therefore you are a person of the left sights, I more right, Right-wing conservative, can be. But chauvinism is a bad education of the nation. I am brought up, all the same, in family with huge traditions, including with nobiliary traditions, therefore I cannot be, basically, the chauvinist. Because at me in blood of blood of different people, but all of them served belief and the truth to Russia, Russian people. Therefore the chauvinist I am not, but I am the person who feels the patriot of the country. In general, from all political trends which exist in the world, there are conditionally three: social, national and liberal. And in each of these currents there are extreme points, and there are moderate points. In social there is a moderate point is a social democracy, is extreme – the Bolshevism, троцкизм. In liberal there is an extreme point are ours a radical-reformers which have crushed the country, and there are people of such sights, as, say, a party(set) "Apple" - our liberal intelligency. In national movement the same: there are people who consider(count) itself national democrats who understand that it is the extremely important to bring up the nation, to work with it(her), to not shade processes which go, including in the ethnic environment. Here, I very much do not like concept "толерантство", which in the West...
В.ПОЗНЕР: Tolerance.
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, tolerance in another way. I understand, that you now will tell, that it is pure(clean) translation(transfer). You know - are not present, I speak here more about terms. When you see a disgrace, you cannot be tolerant. Therefore толерантство, actually, leads сегрегации when the person closes eyes for itself, it(he) does not wish anything to see – here force, here kill, it(he) sees nothing, it(he) lives in the house. Therefore I wish to tell, that in national movement there is all – there are extreme points...
В.ПОЗНЕР: And extreme what at national movement?
Д.РОГОЗИН: It is nazism, certainly. And there is a national movement. We shall tell, all the right parties(sets) of the Europe are national parties(sets): coalition ХДС/ХСС …
В.ПОЗНЕР: But is Ле Foams.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Is Ле Foams, Ле Foams more to the right. In France it голлисты, me relatives they on sights. If want, I – Russian голлист.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Russian голлист is I shall remember, this(thus) good, it is pleasant to me. Means, your sights today's... Have somehow compared the western diplomats, further you name them " presents Сусаниными " and speak so: " you Go, all is good. And then suddenly it appear not clearly where ". First, unless it is incorrect for the majority of politicians? In general, with them you deal, like all it is good, and then it appears it is not known where.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Diplomats – not politicians(policies,politics). It is a greater(big) difference.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Also what it? Your western colleagues here such? You so regard them?
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know the Europe, probably, all the same, better, than I. Or, at least, I know it(her) too well enough as I live there and I communicate. And I live not behind any wall, and I live inside and I cook in their this diplomatic juice. And so, I wish to tell, that first my supervision (I think, that it will be curious for you) is those. It seems to me, that often hypocrisy happens модус вивенди, a way of life of many diplomats in the West. That is they speak a lie, looking to you in eyes, and you are them to be trusted, as, all the same, eyes are shone by the truth. But you thus understand precisely, that you all the same deceive. I now speak about it(this), and at once for some reason to me in a head this all ideology on antimissile defense comes. When to us speak, that Iran is guilty, and systems of rocket interception are developed(unwrapped) for some reason not near to Iran, and at us somewhere on northwest borders. And thus anybody at all will not smile to you when you ask " Well what for you us deceive? " Here there are features of behaviour of some our western, West-European including colleagues when, really, exists. A certain bird's language of diplomats, and you, really is formed, can simply get(start) this language in an absolute jungle, you simply will lose, where the truth, where in general the beginning of history, and where its(her) end. It for me was very complex(difficult) such phenomenon, I got used to it(him,them) year. And now I wish to tell, that I am frequent with them I talk in their language.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Simply you have told, what itself in juice you cook … Perhaps, can answer such question which to NATO of the direct attitude(relation) has no, but nevertheless? All time talk about simplification of a visa mode that it was easier to go to our people on the West. Talk-talk, nothing occurs(happens). Moreover, one my comrade has told, that when look at statistics since then when began to speak much about it(this), it became more complex(difficult) to receive the visa in embassies. Except for American – there it became easier. In all others it is more difficult. In general, what with it(this) occurs(happens), in your opinion? It simply conversation that it was pleasant, and, actually, any intentions seriously to facilitate this mode is not present? Or what?
Д.РОГОЗИН: For the first time dialogue on the given theme, on removal of visa restrictions was fastened in 2002 when president Putin Vladimir Vladimirovich has written letters to all chapters(heads) of the states and the governments of the countries of the European Union. I know it well because I wrote the project of this letter, being the special representative of the president on the Kaliningrad transit. I then understood what to solve under the time(temporary) scheme(plan) the Kaliningrad problem it is impossible - without prospect of an output(exit) as a whole on refusal of visa restrictions. We have lead huge work then, and within the limits of interdepartmental migratory group we have gone(send) on the most serious changes in our legislation. We even with Lithuania then have signed the agreement about реадмиссии, that is about returning illegal emigrants. A problem that since then the situation has changed драматически for the Most European Union. It(he), promising us to open visa sluices in the future, for this time has opened visa sluices for the countries of the East Europe. And all of them have rushed there on the West in such a manner that now practically the shape even the West-European cities starts itself драматически to vary. They simply were frightened of invasion of migrants from those countries which already formally are members of the European Union and NATO, the countries Central and the East Europe. And now they are afraid: " And if now we still shall open doors for Russians, and they will arrive, then we in general shall choke, then in general we shall lose all workplaces ". Here in what the problem, seems to me. In general, I to you also wish to tell, that my supervision on that theme which you have just mentioned(touched) in our conversation on xenofobia, sad. In the Europe there is a growth of xenofobia. We we see, that occurs(happens) certain радикализация. That is, on the one hand, that толерантство, that is I do not see, I do not notice, I know nothing, I hear nothing. Thus when you start to talk to them in private, with serious people... Here I sit, I have supper, I have dinner with someone or is simple with someone I meet - ministers and so on. They start to speak me: " Dmitry, have got already. Have captivated. Have come in large numbers here! " Understand? After their conversations, our all seems to me, what even those organizations which you named, seem simply liberal lambs, after that rhetoric which I hear in confidential conversations. In what it can result(bring) and already results(brings)? To that the political system of the Europe will fall as a pendulum. Because all over again, having opened these all sluices for streams of migrants and then suddenly having seen, that the centers of the largest cities start to vary and turn any more to the Europe, and absolutely in something another...
В.ПОЗНЕР: To Bagdad or in something.
Д.РОГОЗИН: For example, yes. Then suddenly to authority parties(sets) any more from a traditional political spectrum, not правоцентристы, and such right which even in Russia did not dream us start to come. And I think, that this all will carry the Europe in the future. In the political plan it will bring down(collapse) present, political system existing already all post-war time.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And from here complexity with us?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Certainly. Because we still, the huge Russian bear, hanging the potential migratory streams, certainly, even more frightens them. Plus to it(this) is also traditional – I do not know, it is pleasant to you, the word is not pleasant – but русофобия precisely there exists. I to you shall simply result(bring) an example. Sometimes it is necessary me of some people who comes to me on a visit, personally to meet at the airport that them in a monkey house have not tired out(have not driven), especially it is a question about...
В.ПОЗНЕР: the Monkey house is that? КПЗ, whether that?
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, not КПЗ. At the airports there is a closed zone, there behind glass police stations. Because if they see beautiful girls from Russia automatically they, as though, are considered as prostitutes. It simply deduces(removes) the Russian diplomats from itself because often such happens to wives of diplomats, with wives of our military diplomats. We should protect the wives simply. Not physically, but easier(simply) to meet them, to accompany.
В.ПОЗНЕР: That is, in a real life here so, and here there are conversations on simplification of a visa mode.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Yes. Quite right. Thus I think, that serious people in the West, in the same European commission should understand, that Russia is not the supplier of migration, we are recipients, that is we are purchasers of migration. Ourselves we have migrants, huge quantity(amount) of millions in Moscow. And not only in Moscow. Therefore at reliable passport system... In fact, anybody does not speak, that we remove borders in general. Borders will remain. The passport control remains. Simply we should show the passport of the citizen of the Russian Federation, we shall be ready to sign the agreement about реадмиссии between Russia and the European Union. And then there are no problems. All the same at them here these(it) шоры on eyes, fear before that process with which they cannot consult in the Europe.
В.ПОЗНЕР: If me have asked " As you think, how Rogozin concern to the West? ", I would answer: " In my opinion, it(he) concerns to the West, in my opinion, it(he) cannot unimportantly forgive to the West of that in any way, that the West has so come off forward. To how live in the West. Actually, I think, that it(he) envies and wants, that Russians lived also. And as they so do not live and, probably, there will live not soon, here at it(him) in relation to the West such attitude(relation), well, whether that, aversions ". Correctly I would tell or it is wrong?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Certainly, incorrectly.
В.ПОЗНЕР: the Smile gives out you, you know?
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, I am simple too knew, that you to me will set this question. Therefore I now, as though, shall get шпаргалку, " the Answer №2 ". Means, I to you so shall tell. It is prepared my answer. My favourite writer is Feodor Mikhajlovich Dostoevsky. And you know, that Dostoevsky wrote about the Europe.
В.ПОЗНЕР: I know. It(he) wrote very badly about the Europe.
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know, it(he) wrote so: " the Europe to us the second fatherland. And to become the true European, it is necessary to be truly Russian. That is we, - Dostoevsky considered(counted), - we love the European historical stones. But we do not perceive that civilization which on these stones goes ". Understand, yes?
В.ПОЗНЕР: Oh, still as!
Д.РОГОЗИН: Here about my attitude(relation) same. That is I consider(count) myself as the European, it is not pleasant to me to a modern European life much, but thus is much to that I am glad and would like to adopt it. And when you speak, that I envy the West, I admit to you: yes, I envy. Know, I to whom envy? I envy their old men. Especially that who or in war did not accept participation, or that who took part(participated), but on the other hand an entrenchment. They, certainly, live on the order better, than our veterans. And I know a life of our veterans – 11 years I were the deputy of the State Duma in one-mandatory district, I know, how our veterans live. Here it to me is insulting. But it at all does not mean, that my insult is passive. It(she) is active trying to create in my country a life at which people will live better.
В.ПОЗНЕР: By the way, you think to return to a policy(politics)?
Д.РОГОЗИН: And I never left it(her).
В.ПОЗНЕР: No, I mean in internal policy. Even hearings go, can, absolutely crazy, that you replace the speaker of Council of Federation Mironov.
Д.РОГОЗИН: I now shall think on this theme. I think, that now Sergey Mikhajlovich who watches TV, will start badly itself to feel.
В.ПОЗНЕР: It(He) should read it. On it(him) should report.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Yes. Fairly to you I shall tell: certainly, I am not going to work all life in Bruxelles. I there have fulfilled three years, it is necessary to think, certainly, of returning, about new any interesting work. But I shall discuss it with the president and with prime-minister.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you speak: three years already you in Bruxelles. You interestingly enough tell about how you there have gone, and you speak so: " They waited for me here with huge curiosity, whether there has arrived such animal, Russian bear which now will start to swing a cudgel and to beat all on a head? Or, actually, it(he) normal? " As, in general, you had attitudes(relations) with your colleagues there? Really, they were afraid of you? Really, there is such, absolutely stupid(blunt) sensation of Russian, what here it here such bear dangerous? Or it, all the same, some exaggeration?
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, it, certainly, exaggeration, especially at people competent, knowing. In the West the brilliant cultural, political elite well formed, they about us much that know and a lot of truth about us know. I speak now about the concrete case, I just and spoke that you have now quoted about it(him). I went there with that reputation which to me was created by my opponents. Understand? And they to me created this reputation because I was their most serious competitor, the dangerous competitor. Therefore, naturally, they discredited me as could. And here with this reputation I have arrived there, to Bruxelles. But I even have felt it in the first day when I came into a boardroom of advice(council) Russia-NATO. It is a huge hall, there sat almost three ten ambassadors, delegation at each ambassador on 10 person. The Secretary general, the Commander-in-chief of NATO - everyone sit in this hall. And when I came, I saw, how they look at me. I represented, that they now about me think. And I understood, that I them now very much: I shall disappoint, then I shall fascinate. I have made it.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you were sent by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. It(he) perfectly knew about your reputation, it(he) perfectly knew, that think about you. Why, in your opinion, it(he), all the same, has sent you? What for to risk, if it(he), actually, wished to adjust any attitudes(relations)?
Д.РОГОЗИН: we with it(him) had a conversation for one day before I have departed to Bruxelles. Certainly, to open sense of conversation, Vladimir Vladimirovicha Putin's sanction is necessary. But I shall tell that I have simply felt why I go there. It was the heavy situation, the beginning of 2008. Ukraine with Georgia just about should enter NATO or receive a so-called motoring map for membership. It was the situation of forcing of passions on Southern Caucasus, that is пахло war. It was in a underside peak of our attitudes(relations) from NATO, that is could not be worse. And as a matter of fact, I so assume, that the president has decided to direct there not the diplomat, and the politician with serious enough political maneuver, the person, able to speak, convince of own correctness and able to make independent decisions. At least, I so have understood, that my problem(task) was in it(this). Can, I have incorrectly understood, but I so have understood. And I, as seemed to me, with this problem(task) have consulted. At least, today, later almost three years after I have left for Bruxelles, our attitudes(relations) are pragmatic enough and predicted.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And you in what languages freely speak except for Russian?
Д.РОГОЗИН: French, Spanish, Italian, English. Badly, has forgotten partially Czech already and has forgotten partially a little bit a Ukranian language.
В.ПОЗНЕР: By the way, a Ukranian language. What today chances of what Ukraine and Georgia, all the same, become members of NATO, in your opinion?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I Think, that any.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Became less chances, than was?
Д.РОГОЗИН: They are not present in general. I shall explain very simply. Not because we have imposed a paw bloody on free democracies of Georgia and Ukraine. No, certainly, business not in it(this). The prospect of the introduction of Ukraine in NATO has split Ukraine almost geographically directly half-and-half. Total, permanent political crisis in this country which has resulted(brought) and in change of a mode, to change of the president and other-other Also has begun. That is the Ukrainian political elite, even its(her) proAtlantic part has understood, that the theme of the introduction into NATO will simply lead to degradation of the Ukrainian statehood. They were frightened and send(have departed) aside. Here in what the reason.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And Georgia?
Д.РОГОЗИН: And with Georgia... The NATO will never accept the country which has such problems with neighbours in the structure. And then, in what borders to accept Georgia? There Are two variants. To accept in those borders which are recognized with the West, that is in old, Soviet or as we shall tell, Stalin, I like to speak, borders that it was unpleasant to them thus. It means, that they should accept Georgia together with Abkhazia, with South Ossetia, with Edward Kokojty and Sergey Bagapshem, and with our military bases. It is impossible. There is a second variant – to accept that remains after adventure Саакашвили. But for this purpose the West should make that Russian president Dmitry Anatolevich Medvedev has made, it(he) should recognize existence of a new reality, existence of Georgia without Abkhazia and without South Ossetia in new borders. Neither on that, nor on it the West will not go. Therefore I speak: "Never".
В.ПОЗНЕР: And why the West will not go? In the long term, certainly?
Д.РОГОЗИН: And what for? In fact it is not obligatory to connect marriage узы the contract and record in the passport. As a matter of fact, at NATO with Georgia a civil marriage. That is Georgia on the fact participates in all programs of NATO, it(she) directs many(a lot of,much) soldier to Afghanistan, they there perish, and Саакашвили, in my opinion, excuse for expression, on a drum(reel) these coffins which come back back. Georgia participates in переброске, including, military transit (and not just civil as we) through the territory to Afghanistan. That is actually Georgia, not having the formalized membership, as a matter of fact, is in a civil marriage and it is NATO arranges – what for it(him) to incur the responsibility for Georgia with its(her) future policy(politics)?
В.ПОЗНЕР: you know, many questions from spectators in occasion of our attitudes(relations) from NATO. Many speak, whether is(are) deceived we? This rapproachement, these conversations, that we partners or we shall be together, and so on. Whether deceives us the West? Whether it(he) tries to get(start) us in any there a jungle, and then we shall regret for it(this)? It is A lot of questions such, whether that there is no mistake(error) here any?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Mistakes(Errors) are not present. First, at us the President is engaged in a NATO direction personally, chairman of the government is engaged also. They completely in a rate of all events – I simply know it as in a rate of that this theme as it(she) mentions(touches) themes of war and peace, and safety of Russia, is in a constant field of vision of the country leaders. The second, on a NATO direction at us the best diplomats work. The best. These people are heavy for deceiving, they professionals, all of them understand, see a situation, this suitcase with a double bottom... To put it briefly, I do not think, that here it is possible to judge that the Russian diplomacy is naive in attitudes(relations) from NATO. But what such NATO? It is the military-political union of the Europe and anglo-saxons led by Americans where all is very uneasy inside where there are Greece and Turkey which have uneasy attitudes(relations) with each other where there are the Balkan countries having uneasy attitudes(relations) with each other where there are Frenchmen and the Germans having uneasy attitudes(relations) with Washington and so on. Therefore it is alive such organism where we should be not outside, yes? I mean now not about the formalized membership, and about work where we are in work. We should be inside. That is my problem(task) as I understand it(her) and as it(she) is formulated by my management(manual), consists in not giving Americans and Europeans to remain exclusively only alone with each other. I there should be constantly. At all to be present and state the point of view, including in an offensive key.
В.ПОЗНЕР: whether And tell, please, is to some extent break here this last meeting in Lisbon? And if yes, why?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Certainly. First, the in itself strategic concept of NATO is accepted in view of on what we insisted. We insisted on two questions. The first, was interesting to us, that the NATO thinks of itself. Also that the NATO thinks of Russia. On two questions we have received firm enough answer in view of our position. The first: NATO has declared that it(she) respects with international law and speaks about a leaging role of secutiry council of the United Nations in the decision of questions of application of force. It is very important, because till now NATO tried to compete to the United Nations. The second, as to the Russian Federation, we have seen assurance that any question in the Europe, in the European safety cannot be solved without Russia and furthermore against it(her). That is NATO it is interested today in attitudes(relations) from the Russian Federation. And NATO itself has declared, that is not threat for Russia. It was very important for us.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And whether declares NATO, what it does not consider(examine) Russia as threat to?
Д.РОГОЗИН: And it we should tell. And what for the NATO will speak?
В.ПОЗНЕР: the NATO speaks: " We not threat for you also do not consider(count) you as threat for ourselves ". It is any fuller formulation.
Д.РОГОЗИН: I to you shall tell, maybe, a thing for you surprising, from my lips especially. I consider(count), that the NATO is not for us threat, at least, present NATO. For that simple reason (I shall explain, that I mean), that there inside there are countries which have with us, really, deep attitudes(relations) and which will not allow NATO антагонизироваться and, especially, to become a real thunder-storm for the Russian Federation. Test at us was in August, 2008 when, really, Washington insisted... There Were such forces, I cannot open to you, but, as though, we in a rate. There were forces which supported landing the forwarding American case to Southern Caucasus. And Europeans have blocked this question. That is actually NATO then has hung on trousers at Americans, has prevented to operate(work) with it(him) resolutely. And those only were limited to input of the separate ships, which Turks too considered(counted) on the tonnage and by quantity(amount) according to the convention, to Black sea. It was demonstration of force, but no more that. They could not make anything. And it was the moment of the most complex(difficult) our attitudes(relations). Therefore I consider(count), that in NATO there are forces which are not friendly in relation to us and which, really, try to deceive us sometimes. And about it(this), as a matter of fact, there was an application(a statement) of president Medvedev in its(his) message to Federal assembly, that we are ready to cooperate on antimissile defense, but in a adult way, seriously. There, where there can be rocket risks in the future. But if you under a pretext of protection of the Europe from a rocket attack will put strategic systems of rocket interception there, where sector of dispersal of strategic intercontinental ballistic missiles of Russia we shall be compelled(forced) to go for expansion of the new shock systems. It is the fair approach in our attitudes(relations). I consider(count), that such pragmatic attitudes(relations) should be. Additional new enemies are not necessary to us.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And we have enemies?
Д.РОГОЗИН: At such country as the Russian Federation - with its(her) stocks, with its(her) huge territories...
В.ПОЗНЕР: you can name them?
Д.РОГОЗИН: No, certainly. As the diplomat I shall not be.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And you have told, that you the politician, instead of the diplomat.
Д.РОГОЗИН: As the politician and the diplomat I shall not be. To me with them still to work.
В.ПОЗНЕР: But you approve(confirm), what they are?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I think, that there are influential forces which concern to us not simply эгоистично, and with cold artful calculation. I am assured(confident), I simply know, that such people are.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you have somehow told more recently: " Now on the western direction for the first time in history conditions develops so, that the prospect long, if not an everlasting peace in the Europe " began to dawn. In your lips the word "everlasting peace" sounds extremely strange. Same idealism, an everlasting peace. About what we speak here?
Д.РОГОЗИН: you know... At me in a sort people who were at war with invasions of the West, I once again speak, since XI century. Therefore I very much would like to finish personally this disgrace and to have though any guarantees of that Russia could concentrate the forces to other directions. Why I doubt what there is a real military threat and in general military danger even from the western direction? And you look, as they live. They live so is sweet, so is soft, in a bourgeois way. All at them is good, it is pleasant to all of them. They cannot refuse a high consumption level to which they so have got used. And consequently to them it is necessary for NATO that it here on distant approaches constrained these threats, душило to keep a high consumption level of their European sweet bourgeois life. They will not be at war with us – they are afraid of us.
В.ПОЗНЕР: last Two questions, one serious, another are not present. Polls show, that the overwhelming majority of Russians, the order of 68 % or 63 % negatively concern to NATO. It is bad?
Д.РОГОЗИН: It is normal.
В.ПОЗНЕР: It should vary in due course?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Let will prove, that our public opinion should exchange.
В.ПОЗНЕР: And a question not so serious. Means, you prefer to go for work by a motorcycle.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Not always. But I go.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you speak " girls Go for a drive only, - you notice. – as the true biker, I speak " we belabour ". In NATO the Belgian protection from apart learns(finds out) me and lifts a barrier on a check point ". In Moscow you too on a motorcycle? Or not?
Д.РОГОЗИН: In 2007, when I the first time of villages on байк... When me have released(exempted) from significant political and parliamentary posts, at me in blood was a lot of adrenaline and a lot of free time. And I have gone to motor-school. And I was learnt(taught) on байке. I have finished autumn, spring schools, went on an ice, I have learned to go well by a motorcycle, including in cross-country race was engaged. I have left in city on May, 4th, 2007, I of tears from a motorcycle on October, 24th. In Moscow on all fuses only on it(him) also went. I love this kind of sports, it is convenient to me so to go, I am in time on all meetings. But it at all does not mean, that I have gone mad, Vladimir Vladimirovich.
В.ПОЗНЕР: Yes I also do not think. Also does not doubt, that in full health, Marseilles Proust, my kind friend who asked you to congratulate and set from its(his) name to you some questions. In what cases you лжете?
Д.РОГОЗИН: In case of the state necessity.
В.ПОЗНЕР: When and where you of all were more happy?
Д.РОГОЗИН: In marriage(spoilage).
В.ПОЗНЕР: If you could change in yourselves something one, what you would change?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I shall not change anything in myself.
В.ПОЗНЕР: What your hobby?
Д.РОГОЗИН: To play with grandsons.
В.ПОЗНЕР: About what you more all regret?
Д.РОГОЗИН: that yet does not happen.
В.ПОЗНЕР: If the devil has offered you an eternal life without any conditions, would accept?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I do not communicate with a devil at all.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you have a favourite literary character?
Д.РОГОЗИН: it is a lot of Them. I spoke, Dostoevsky is pleasant to me. It is a lot of characters. And "Demons", and " Brothers Карамазовы ". It is a lot of-many.
В.ПОЗНЕР: you appreciate What virtue most of all?
Д.РОГОЗИН: Nobleness.
В.ПОЗНЕР: As though you would like to die?
Д.РОГОЗИН: I in general would not would like to die.
В.ПОЗНЕР: the Eternal life. When, if предстанете before the God, what you to it(him) will tell?
Д.РОГОЗИН: "Good evening".
В.ПОЗНЕР: It was our constant representative at NATO Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin. Thanks big.
Д.РОГОЗИН: Thanks.

Artem Kalinin
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Алла Засыпкина
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